Newbie Question about Star Catalogs

[Rhino]

Actually, I'm not really even a newbie, just a science fiction fan with a
vague interest in astronomy.

But, as it happens, I'm reading a novel which gives a catalog reference to a
particular star and I would like to know where this star is and what it's
called. I know the novel will tell me this eventually but I'd like to know
*now* :-)

The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"; if I'm not
mistaken, "NGS" refers to a particular star catalog (National Galactic
Survey?) and "549672" uniquely identifies a specific star. I googled on "NGS
549672" but found nothing useful. Then I googled on "star catalog" and found
tons of hits and discovered that there are apparently a number of popular
star charts. Unfortunately, I don't know how to use *any* of them to
discover what the name of this particular star is.

Now, I am NOT asking anyone to simply tell me the star's name is; I'd like
to learn a little something along the way :-) So, can anyone tell me what
catalog to use to find this star and where I can find an online tool (or
program) that will enable me to do this lookup? For example: "use the XYZ
Star Catalog, which can be found at http://xyz.com and has a
self-explanatory interface where you can specify the star's identifier."

I should mention that the book was written in 1953 so the catalog in
question, NGS, may not exist any more, having been superseded by something
newer. If that is the case, I assume there is some way to translate my
reference to the name used in the later catalog(s) so I'd appreciate some
guidance in how to find a conversion tool.

See, I *am* trying to learn something, not just have all the answers handed
to me on a silver platter :-)

[Greg Crinklaw]

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"; if I'm not
mistaken, "NGS" refers to a particular star catalog (National Galactic
Survey?) and "549672" uniquely identifies a specific star.

I work with astronomical catalogs a lot and I'm sorry to say that there
doesn't seem to be any NGS catalog. The number is also way too big for
a catalog from the 50's (remember that's the pre-computer era), so I
think it's safe to say that it was simply made up. You are right about
how it would work though.

Some links if you are still curious:
SIMBAD http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/
NED http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html

To reply have a physician remove your spleen

[Rhino]

Post by Greg Crinklaw

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"; if I'm not
mistaken, "NGS" refers to a particular star catalog (National Galactic
Survey?) and "549672" uniquely identifies a specific star.

I work with astronomical catalogs a lot and I'm sorry to say that there
doesn't seem to be any NGS catalog. The number is also way too big for
a catalog from the 50's (remember that's the pre-computer era), so I
think it's safe to say that it was simply made up. You are right about
how it would work though.
SIMBAD http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/
NED http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/

Really? The novel, Childhood's End, is by Arthur C. Clarke. I always thought
Clarke had a reputation as a genuine scientist, not just a novelist. I had
expected accuracy from him.

In 1953, looking up something like that catalog number would probably have
been something you could only do at a major metropolitan library or
university with an astrophysics department. I assumed this reference was
basically an inside joke for the readers he had who were actually
astronomers....

Well, I guess I was wrong and the reference is bogus.

Thank you for clearing that up! Your note probably also explains why my
google search on the NGS number failed to work.

Rhino

[Mike Simmons]

Post by Rhino

Post by Greg Crinklaw

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"; if I'm not
mistaken, "NGS" refers to a particular star catalog (National Galactic
Survey?) and "549672" uniquely identifies a specific star.

I work with astronomical catalogs a lot and I'm sorry to say that there
doesn't seem to be any NGS catalog. The number is also way too big for
a catalog from the 50's (remember that's the pre-computer era), so I
think it's safe to say that it was simply made up. You are right about
how it would work though.
SIMBAD http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/
NED http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/

Really? The novel, Childhood's End, is by Arthur C. Clarke. I always thought
Clarke had a reputation as a genuine scientist, not just a novelist. I had
expected accuracy from him.
In 1953, looking up something like that catalog number would probably have
been something you could only do at a major metropolitan library or
university with an astrophysics department. I assumed this reference was
basically an inside joke for the readers he had who were actually
astronomers....
Well, I guess I was wrong and the reference is bogus.
Thank you for clearing that up! Your note probably also explains why my
google search on the NGS number failed to work.
Rhino

There's a chance Clarke was using a designation that might have made sense
at the time, based on your speculation that "NGS" could stand for the
National Geographic Society. What is now referred to as the Palomar
Observatory Sky Survey (POSS) had begun in 1949 and was at the time
referred to as the National Geographic Society-Palomar Observatory Sky
Survey (for the sponsor of the survey). Thus Clarke might have used "NGS"
as a catalog designation in anticipation of the publication of a catalog he
might have expected many years in the future (the survey was completed in
1958 but any catalog that might have resulted would have taken many more
years to reduce from the glass photographic plates. No such systematic
catalog was ever produced and I don't think such a project was ever planned
but this could have been something from Clarke's rather fertile
imagination.

This is all speculation and only Clarke could say if there's any truth to
it. Of course, you could always write to him and ask -- there's nothing to
lose by trying but a few minutes of your time. But even if the above was
correct (and it seems like a long-shot) the star designation is clearly
made up.

I wouldn't fault Clarke for that, though. Since he was writing about the
future he could just as easily use a star catalog that had yet to be
developed. His use of it seems to be in line with common usage and the
high number that Greg points out is consistent with future, advanced
technologies. Besides, Clarke undoubtedly was familiar with the problems
associated with naming a real star. He'd probably encountered plenty of
people who take such things literally, assuming that the government is
hiding something that has to do with that star. Many of the rest of us
have encountered such people.

Mike Simmons

[Chris L Peterson]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:08:02 -0700, Mike Simmons

Post by Mike Simmons
There's a chance Clarke was using a designation that might have made sense
at the time, based on your speculation that "NGS" could stand for the
National Geographic Society. What is now referred to as the Palomar
Observatory Sky Survey (POSS) had begun in 1949 and was at the time
referred to as the National Geographic Society-Palomar Observatory Sky
Survey (for the sponsor of the survey). Thus Clarke might have used "NGS"
as a catalog designation in anticipation of the publication of a catalog he
might have expected many years in the future (the survey was completed in
1958 but any catalog that might have resulted would have taken many more
years to reduce from the glass photographic plates.

Interesting. That sounds very much like something Clarke would do (and
he does identify NGS in the book as the National Geographic Survey).

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

[Rhino]

Post by Mike Simmons

Post by Rhino

Post by Greg Crinklaw

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"; if I'm not
mistaken, "NGS" refers to a particular star catalog (National Galactic
Survey?) and "549672" uniquely identifies a specific star.

I work with astronomical catalogs a lot and I'm sorry to say that there
doesn't seem to be any NGS catalog. The number is also way too big for
a catalog from the 50's (remember that's the pre-computer era), so I
think it's safe to say that it was simply made up. You are right about
how it would work though.
SIMBAD http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/
NED http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/

Really? The novel, Childhood's End, is by Arthur C. Clarke. I always thought
Clarke had a reputation as a genuine scientist, not just a novelist. I had
expected accuracy from him.
In 1953, looking up something like that catalog number would probably

have

Post by Mike Simmons

Post by Rhino
been something you could only do at a major metropolitan library or
university with an astrophysics department. I assumed this reference was
basically an inside joke for the readers he had who were actually
astronomers....
Well, I guess I was wrong and the reference is bogus.
Thank you for clearing that up! Your note probably also explains why my
google search on the NGS number failed to work.
Rhino

There's a chance Clarke was using a designation that might have made sense
at the time, based on your speculation that "NGS" could stand for the
National Geographic Society. What is now referred to as the Palomar
Observatory Sky Survey (POSS) had begun in 1949 and was at the time
referred to as the National Geographic Society-Palomar Observatory Sky
Survey (for the sponsor of the survey). Thus Clarke might have used "NGS"
as a catalog designation in anticipation of the publication of a catalog he
might have expected many years in the future (the survey was completed in
1958 but any catalog that might have resulted would have taken many more
years to reduce from the glass photographic plates. No such systematic
catalog was ever produced and I don't think such a project was ever planned
but this could have been something from Clarke's rather fertile
imagination.
This is all speculation and only Clarke could say if there's any truth to
it. Of course, you could always write to him and ask -- there's nothing to
lose by trying but a few minutes of your time. But even if the above was
correct (and it seems like a long-shot) the star designation is clearly
made up.
I wouldn't fault Clarke for that, though. Since he was writing about the
future he could just as easily use a star catalog that had yet to be
developed. His use of it seems to be in line with common usage and the
high number that Greg points out is consistent with future, advanced
technologies. Besides, Clarke undoubtedly was familiar with the problems
associated with naming a real star. He'd probably encountered plenty of
people who take such things literally, assuming that the government is
hiding something that has to do with that star. Many of the rest of us
have encountered such people.

I wasn't born until a few years after Childhood's End came out so I can't
speak from experience on that. I wonder if as many people believed in
conspiracy theories then as do now? I'm amazed by all of the really bizarre
theories I see in various newsgroups in Usenet! Then again, maybe I
shouldn't be surprised for the political newsgroups; they tend to bring out
the whackos!

I'm not saying that there have never been any real conspiracies but I
seriously doubt that there have been nearly as many as some people seem to
believe. I can remember anxieties and concerns from when I was a kid -
people worried about nuclear war with the Soviets and some people speculated
that Hitler or Bormann might still be alive somewhere, plotting to resurrect
the Third Reich - but even these weren't full scale conspiracy theories
involving sneaky plots and coverups by national governments.

Oh well, it takes all kinds of people to make up a world.....

Rhino

[Mike Simmons]

Post by Rhino

Post by Mike Simmons
I wouldn't fault Clarke for that, though. Since he was writing about the
future he could just as easily use a star catalog that had yet to be
developed. His use of it seems to be in line with common usage and the
high number that Greg points out is consistent with future, advanced
technologies. Besides, Clarke undoubtedly was familiar with the problems
associated with naming a real star. He'd probably encountered plenty of
people who take such things literally, assuming that the government is
hiding something that has to do with that star. Many of the rest of us
have encountered such people.

I wasn't born until a few years after Childhood's End came out so I can't
speak from experience on that. I wonder if as many people believed in
conspiracy theories then as do now? I'm amazed by all of the really bizarre
theories I see in various newsgroups in Usenet! Then again, maybe I
shouldn't be surprised for the political newsgroups; they tend to bring out
the whackos!
I'm not saying that there have never been any real conspiracies but I
seriously doubt that there have been nearly as many as some people seem to
believe. I can remember anxieties and concerns from when I was a kid -
people worried about nuclear war with the Soviets and some people speculated
that Hitler or Bormann might still be alive somewhere, plotting to resurrect
the Third Reich - but even these weren't full scale conspiracy theories
involving sneaky plots and coverups by national governments.
Oh well, it takes all kinds of people to make up a world.....
Rhino

When Clarke wrote Childhood's End in 1953 the US was in the grip of the
biggest conspiracy-theory period ever -- The Red Scare. Consider Sen. Joe
McCarthy and how he could terrorize citizens, the FBI's anti-Communist
actions, etc. There were UFO's as well and one movie after another playing
on people's fears by showing us being invaded.

The only difference I'm aware of is that now Usenet has given the
conspiracy-minded places to congregate and compare notes more easily.

Mike Simmons

[Chris L Peterson]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:50:20 -0400, "Rhino"

Post by Rhino
Really? The novel, Childhood's End, is by Arthur C. Clarke. I always thought
Clarke had a reputation as a genuine scientist, not just a novelist. I had
expected accuracy from him.

In fact, Clarke identifies "NGS" as the "great National Geographic
Survey", which was identified as having been completed 50 years before
Jan looks up the reference- and certainly after the date the book was
written. So the reference is to a purely fictional catalog.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

[Starlord]

Clarke was a Sci-Fi writter and not beyond making something up, like in his
The City and the Stars he tells about the 7 Suns, 6 in a circle and the 7th
as the center and they where man made too.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net

Post by Rhino
Really? The novel, Childhood's End, is by Arthur C. Clarke. I always thought
Clarke had a reputation as a genuine scientist, not just a novelist. I had
expected accuracy from him.
In 1953, looking up something like that catalog number would probably
have
been something you could only do at a major metropolitan library or
university with an astrophysics department. I assumed this reference was
basically an inside joke for the readers he had who were actually
astronomers....
Well, I guess I was wrong and the reference is bogus.
Thank you for clearing that up! Your note probably also explains why my
google search on the NGS number failed to work.
Rhino

[William Hamblen]

Post by Greg Crinklaw

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"; if I'm not
mistaken, "NGS" refers to a particular star catalog (National Galactic
Survey?) and "549672" uniquely identifies a specific star.

I work with astronomical catalogs a lot and I'm sorry to say that there
doesn't seem to be any NGS catalog. The number is also way too big for
a catalog from the 50's (remember that's the pre-computer era), so I
think it's safe to say that it was simply made up. You are right about
how it would work though.

NGS 549672 appears to be an imaginary reference, but it isn't a
completely far-fetched idea. The big star catalogs (BD, SBD and CD)
of the 19th century totaled over a million stars and were done by
hand and visually, so a big catalog number is not impossible for 1953.
The National Geographic Society had the National Geographic Society -
Palomar Observatory Sky Survey going by 1953; therefore, the NGS could
be inspired by National Geographic Society. As far as I know a catalog
wasn't produced from the plates until the Hubble Guide Star Catalog
came out. I don't know whether there was any earlier idea to produce
a star catalog from the NGS-POSS plates. The Carte du Ciel project of
the early 20th century was planned to produce an all-sky photographic
atlas and catalog with millions of stars but that as far as I know the
project was never completed.

[Greg Crinklaw]

Post by William Hamblen

Post by Greg Crinklaw

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"; if I'm not
mistaken, "NGS" refers to a particular star catalog (National Galactic
Survey?) and "549672" uniquely identifies a specific star.

I work with astronomical catalogs a lot and I'm sorry to say that there
doesn't seem to be any NGS catalog. The number is also way too big for
a catalog from the 50's (remember that's the pre-computer era), so I
think it's safe to say that it was simply made up. You are right about
how it would work though.

NGS 549672 appears to be an imaginary reference, but it isn't a
completely far-fetched idea. The big star catalogs (BD, SBD and CD)
of the 19th century totaled over a million stars and were done by
hand and visually, so a big catalog number is not impossible for 1953.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Nobody said it was impossible in principle.
But it is quite unlikely that such a catalog existed and is now lost or
unknown.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html

To reply have a physician remove your spleen

[Rhino]

Post by William Hamblen

Post by Greg Crinklaw

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"; if I'm not
mistaken, "NGS" refers to a particular star catalog (National Galactic
Survey?) and "549672" uniquely identifies a specific star.

I work with astronomical catalogs a lot and I'm sorry to say that there
doesn't seem to be any NGS catalog. The number is also way too big for
a catalog from the 50's (remember that's the pre-computer era), so I
think it's safe to say that it was simply made up. You are right about
how it would work though.

NGS 549672 appears to be an imaginary reference, but it isn't a
completely far-fetched idea. The big star catalogs (BD, SBD and CD)
of the 19th century totaled over a million stars and were done by
hand and visually, so a big catalog number is not impossible for 1953.
The National Geographic Society had the National Geographic Society -
Palomar Observatory Sky Survey going by 1953; therefore, the NGS could
be inspired by National Geographic Society. As far as I know a catalog
wasn't produced from the plates until the Hubble Guide Star Catalog
came out. I don't know whether there was any earlier idea to produce
a star catalog from the NGS-POSS plates. The Carte du Ciel project of
the early 20th century was planned to produce an all-sky photographic
atlas and catalog with millions of stars but that as far as I know the
project was never completed.

By a curious coincidence, my Google search on "star catalog" yesterday
turned up a freeware computer program that would give you pictures of the
sky using any of several different catalogs. The programmer is apparently
French and calls the program Cartes du Ciel. Could this program be some
offshoot of the project you are describing? The URL for the English version
of the program is http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/index.html.

I downloaded the program and installed it but I don't know nearly enough
about astronomy to get much out of it. It would probably be pretty useful
for those who know astronomy better.

Rhino

[Greg Crinklaw]

Post by Rhino
The programmer is apparently
French and calls the program Cartes du Ciel.

That just means "Star Charts" in French; a natural generic term as well
as a name for the software. It has nothing to do with the project
mentioned other than the name.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html

To reply have a physician remove your spleen

[Greg Crinklaw]

Post by Greg Crinklaw

Post by Rhino
The programmer is apparently
French and calls the program Cartes du Ciel.

That just means "Star Charts" in French; a natural generic term as well
as a name for the software. It has nothing to do with the project
mentioned other than the name.

I misspoke of course; I meant "Sky Charts." Star Charts would be
something more like "Cartes d'Etoiles."
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html

To reply have a physician remove your spleen

[William Hamblen]

Post by Rhino
By a curious coincidence, my Google search on "star catalog" yesterday
turned up a freeware computer program that would give you pictures of the
sky using any of several different catalogs. The programmer is apparently
French and calls the program Cartes du Ciel. Could this program be some
offshoot of the project you are describing? The URL for the English version
of the program is http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/index.html.

Carte du Ciel = Sky Chart / Cartes du Ciel = Sky Charts.

The Carte du Ciel project of 100 years ago was a scheme to make an
all-sky photographic atlas and catalog using standardized astrographs
at observatories all over the world. It never was 100% completed,
but they did catalog millions of stars in the days when computers
took coffee breaks.

[Bill Owen]

Post by William Hamblen
Carte du Ciel = Sky Chart / Cartes du Ciel = Sky Charts.
The Carte du Ciel project of 100 years ago was a scheme to make an
all-sky photographic atlas and catalog using standardized astrographs
at observatories all over the world. It never was 100% completed,
but they did catalog millions of stars in the days when computers
took coffee breaks.

The Carte du Ciel project was farmed out to several dozen observatories
worldwide, at different latitudes. Each observatory was responsible for
imaging an agreed-upon zone of declination and publishing the results.
The photographic plates -- or reproductions of them -- were to form the
Carte du Ciel (kinda like the Palomar Observatory Sky Survey and its
southern extension). That part of it was indeed never published.

The catalog resulting from this mammoth project was the Astrographic
Catalogue. Each observatory published their section of it in their own
proceedings, so a complete collection is a rather haphazard-looking lot.
The last volumes didn't appear until the 1950s, if memory serves. Most
of the observatories published only their (x,y) plate measurements, with
a set of plate constants for each plate, so it was up to the user to
transform (x,y) into (RA,Dec) for stars of interest. This turns out to
have been a wonderful decision, for we can use modern techniques and
come out with a catalog far better than what they could have done.

And that has indeed been done. The US Naval Observatory published
"AC 2000" in 1997 and the updated "AC 2000.2" several years later.
The latter includes 4.6 million stars -- twice as many as Tycho-2 --
covering the whole sky. And if I'm not mistaken, the makers of Tycho-2
used the Astrographic Catalogue as one of their sources for proper
motion.

So all that work 100 years ago was not in vain.

-- Bill Owen
***@jpl-dot-nasa-dot-gov

[Chuck Taylor]

NGS is the second edition of the SAO catalog. SAO was the
first and stood for "Sold Astronomical Objects." These were
astronomical objects which were sold through the International
Star Registry. However, as more and more objects were sold,
the brighter stars in our galaxy were all sold and people
began buying entire galaxies. This necessitated a change, so
the catalog was split into three new catalogs. The NGS stands
for "Named Galactic Stars" and includes only those stars
within our own galaxy which have been sold. The NGC catalog
stands for "Named Galactic Clouds" and includes various nebula
within our own galaxy. IC stands for "Intergalactic
Collection" and includes all sold objects outside of our own
galaxy.

Since the purchasers have an official laser-printer
certificate, and the names have been published in a book that
is registered with the library of Congress, these names are
now official, and must be used by astronomers. Of course,
astronomers are jealous that they didn't think of it first.
Therefore astronomers have resisted using the names. In a
passive-aggressive move, they have refused to use the full
names, and are using only the numbers. The numbers were
assigned in the order of purchase. However congress is now
drafting legislation that will force astronomers to use the
full names. This is only right, as these people paid good
money, and have official certificates.

Of course, as an officially published book, the names are
protected by International Copyright, thereby forcing the rest
of the world to at least use the numbers as well. And, as more
copies of the book are registered with governments around the
world, eventually astronomers everywhere will have to
acknowledge the officialness of these names and use the full
names and not just the SAO, NGS, NGC or IC numbers.

("It must be official. I have an official laser-printer
certificate!")

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon? If so, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

If you enjoy optics, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATM_Optics_Software/
*********************************************

[Martin R. Howell]

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"

I believe that is either John Steinberg or Howard Lester. . .no wait. . .it
would be Dave Jessie.


--Martin
I am just here for something to do until I do something

[Rhino]

Post by Martin R. Howell

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"

I believe that is either John Steinberg or Howard Lester. . .no wait. . .it
would be Dave Jessie.

Ok, I'll bite: who are they? I've never heard of any of them....

Rhino

[Dave Jessie]

Post by Rhino
Ok, I'll bite: who are they? I've never heard of any of them....

Hi Rhino,

Don't worry. Collectively we're basically nobody.
By the way, anybody heard from Mr. Steinberg recently?

Clear Dark Steady Skies,
Dave Jessie

[Chris L Peterson]

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:34:53 GMT, "Dave Jessie"

Post by Dave Jessie
By the way, anybody heard from Mr. Steinberg recently?

I fear that the terrible depression resulting from using a Mac and
living in the great armpit of America may have driven him to end it all.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

[Dave Jessie]

Post by Chris L Peterson
I fear that the terrible depression resulting from using a Mac and
living in the great armpit of America may have driven him to end it all.

Oh NO!!! I hear you, Chris. While I know several people that can stand the
stress of one or the other, I know FEW that could stand the pressure of both
simultaneously. I fear the worst as well. Poor John. Poor, poor John.
And his birthday was but 25 days away...ninety-two, if I remember correctly.

Let's lift our collective glasses to ol' Mr. Potatohead.

[Chuck Taylor]

Post by Dave Jessie

Post by Chris L Peterson
I fear that the terrible depression resulting from using a Mac and
living in the great armpit of America may have driven him to end it all.

Oh NO!!! I hear you, Chris. While I know several people that can stand the
stress of one or the other, I know FEW that could stand the pressure of both
simultaneously. I fear the worst as well. Poor John. Poor, poor John.
And his birthday was but 25 days away...ninety-two, if I remember correctly.
Let's lift our collective glasses to ol' Mr. Potatohead.

Hear! Hear! It was a valiant struggle against overwhelming
discouragement. I'm surprised he held out as long as he did.

May his soul find rest in the blessed realms where Macs are
not allowed.

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
*********************************************
Do you observe the moon? If so, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

If you enjoy optics, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATM_Optics_Software/
*********************************************

[Dave Jessie]

Post by Martin R. Howell

Post by Rhino
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"

I believe that is either John Steinberg or Howard Lester. . .no wait. . .it
would be Dave Jessie.

Hi Martin!

Post by Martin R. Howell
I am just here for something to do until I do something

I know exactly what you mean. Me too!

Clear Dark Steady Skies,
Dave Jessie

[Sam Wormley]

Post by Rhino
Actually, I'm not really even a newbie, just a science fiction fan with a
vague interest in astronomy.
But, as it happens, I'm reading a novel which gives a catalog reference to a
particular star and I would like to know where this star is and what it's
called. I know the novel will tell me this eventually but I'd like to know
*now* :-)
The star mentioned in the book is identified as "NGS 549672"; if I'm not
mistaken, "NGS" refers to a particular star catalog (National Galactic
Survey?) and "549672" uniquely identifies a specific star. I googled on "NGS
549672" but found nothing useful.

New General Catalogue (NGC)
http://www.ngcic.org/DSS/dss_ngc.asp

"NGS 549672" doesn't appear to have anything to do with real astronomy

Notable Nearby Stars
http://www.solstation.com/stars.htm

Nearby Stars
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980609b.html
http://vizier.u-strasbg.fr/viz-bin/ftp-index?V/70A

[Chuck Taylor]

NGS is the second edition of the SAO catalog. SAO was the
first and stood for "Sold Astronomical Objects." These were
astronomical objects which were sold through the International
Star Registry. However, as more and more objects were sold,
the brighter stars in our galaxy were all sold and people
began buying entire galaxies. This necessitated a change, so
the catalog was split into three new catalogs. The NGS stands
for "Named Galactic Stars" and includes only those stars
within our own galaxy which have been sold. The NGC catalog
stands for "Named Galactic Clouds" and includes various nebula
within our own galaxy. IC stands for "Intergalactic
Collection" and includes all sold objects outside of our own
galaxy.

Since the purchasers have an official laser-printer
certificate, and the names have been published in a book that
is registered with the library of Congress, these names are
now official, and must be used by astronomers. Of course,
astronomers are jealous that they didn't think of it first.
Therefore astronomers have resisted using the names. In a
passive-aggressive move, they have refused to use the full
names, and are using only the numbers. The numbers were
assigned in the order of purchase. However congress is now
drafting legislation that will force astronomers to use the
full names. This is only right, as these people paid good
money, and have official certificates.

Of course, as an officially published book, the names are
protected by International Copyright, thereby forcing the rest
of the world to at least use the numbers as well. And, as more
copies of the book are registered with governments around the
world, eventually astronomers everywhere will have to
acknowledge the officialness of these names and use the full
names and not just the SAO, NGS, NGC or IC numbers.

("It must be official. I have an official laser-printer
certificate!")

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon? If so, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

If you enjoy optics, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATM_Optics_Software/
*********************************************

[JD]

I think that this has been pretty well answered, but if you wanted to
really finish the subjec once and for all, I'll point you to the
reference that Sam Wormley gave you:
http://www.solstation.com/stars.htm

This will give you a list of nearby stars. Now Unless I'm mistaken
(More accurately, unless my quick web search is inaccurate) NGS 549672
was located 40 light years away. That is a pretty short list of stars,
even if you give pretty big error bars to the measurement.

Oh, and I have to applaud Chuck Taylor's satire. Perhaps we should put
a rider on the bill to require the use of "full star names". I would
suggest that other terms be included, with fines associated with them.
For example the term "Kleenex" must be used, Not "tissue" or "nose
wipe". Another example is the term "Coke" must be used instead of
"Cola". Poor Pepsi is going to feel the cost of that one. Well that's
my rant on "Good-Speak."

JD