Daylight Savings explanation

[[e-mail]]

There are many news articles about Daylight Savings, however, there is no real explanation what it means other than clocks spring forward or fall back.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london

That website provides an excellent way to appreciate how 24 hour noon is anchored to natural noon and the flexibility of timekeeping which includes DST.

Before DST is applied, the period of time from natural sunrise to natural noon and clock noon is symmetrical to the period to natural sunset. If there are 5 hours from natural sunrise to natural/clock noon, there are also 5 hours from natural/clock noon to natural sunset.

What DST does is create an asymmetry between sunrise and clock noon and clock noon and sunset. so the one hour from sunset to clock noon is shortened by an hour through DST and lengthened by an hour from clock noon to sunset giving 'longer evenings'.

Go down to the date and move the Sun back one hour and this feature will immediately become obvious, at least with a little effort.

Of course, this requires the inviolate principle that clock noon and natural noon are anchored to one rotation of the Earth and unfortunately that principle is not presently forthcoming in this newsgroup or anywhere else for that matter.

[a a]

On Thursday, 13 October 2022 at 07:41:39 UTC+2, ***@gmail.com wrote:
#marketingfake

[StarDust]

Post by ***@gmail.com
There are many news articles about Daylight Savings, however, there is no real explanation what it means other than clocks spring forward or fall back.
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london
That website provides an excellent way to appreciate how 24 hour noon is anchored to natural noon and the flexibility of timekeeping which includes DST.
Before DST is applied, the period of time from natural sunrise to natural noon and clock noon is symmetrical to the period to natural sunset. If there are 5 hours from natural sunrise to natural/clock noon, there are also 5 hours from natural/clock noon to natural sunset.
What DST does is create an asymmetry between sunrise and clock noon and clock noon and sunset. so the one hour from sunset to clock noon is shortened by an hour through DST and lengthened by an hour from clock noon to sunset giving 'longer evenings'.
Go down to the date and move the Sun back one hour and this feature will immediately become obvious, at least with a little effort.
Of course, this requires the inviolate principle that clock noon and natural noon are anchored to one rotation of the Earth and unfortunately that principle is not presently forthcoming in this newsgroup or anywhere else for that matter.

Another hallucination?

[[e-mail]]

I try to avoid bringing the phrase clocks moving forward or backward into consideration because the relationship between the daily rotational cycle in terms of sunrise/noon/sunset and the 24 hour clock cycle is tricky enough.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london

Go to 30th October after DST is removed. The 24 hour cycle is anchored to noon within the sunrise/noon/sunset cycle every 24 hours. Moving the Sun back one hour towards sunrise generates the observed asymmetry where 'longer evenings' result. The real asymmetry is moving the 24 hour cycle back one hour towards sunrise and even though I am familiar with this for quite some time, it still gives me trouble to envision that by moving a clock hand back one hour is actually moving the clock forward to its natural home in natural noon.

I don't blame people for avoiding the issue, however, it highlights the flexibility of the 24 hour timekeeping system along with the flexibility of the calendar system. There is a lot of handwringing about the presence of DST yet I find it brilliant for opening/closing hours and things like that.

[Quadibloc]

Post by ***@gmail.com
Of course, this requires the inviolate principle that clock noon and natural noon are anchored to
one rotation of the Earth and unfortunately that principle is not presently forthcoming in this
newsgroup or anywhere else for that matter.

A day takes 24 hours. If you label the hours in a day with the names of the hours that will
actually come an hour later, you will cause people to wake up an hour earlier, go to work an
hour earlier, and so on.

This will mean that when they go home in the evening, they will take an extra hour between
when they came home from work or school before they encounter the time of day when they
have to turn their lights on to see, and so electricity is saved.

How this is changed if, instead of taking 24 hours, the Earth's rotation takes 23 hours, 56 minutes, and
4 seconds - because in the course of a day, the Earth's orbit around the Sun means that the direction to the
Sun is different, and so one full rotation, with the Earth returning to the same orientation, is not the same as
the Earth facing the same part of itself _towards the Sun_, in relation to which it _moved_...

is completely beyond me. The rotation of the Earth has absolultely *nothing* to do with Daylight Savings
Time, _only_ the solar day.

John Savard

[palsing]

Of course, this requires the inviolate principle that clock noon and natural noon are anchored to one rotation of the Earth ...

Exactly right... with respect to the Sun, of course...

[[e-mail]]

The Air and Space museum in Washington is re-opening yet they still retain the mistake made in the late 17th century which connects the day with the year-

https://airandspace.si.edu/explore/stories/earth

I have some sympathy for those men a few centuries ago insofar as they were unaware of the older framework which creates the calendar system was not known until Champollion deciphered hieroglyphics and the Egyptian Decans along with its references were discovered to be the basis of all timekeeping including the recent development of the 24 hour clock. Although the framework is attributed to the decree of Canopus, the Decans are thousands of years older with the bright star Sirius taking the starring role so to speak.

https://themathematicaltourist.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/the-decans-in-senenmuts-tomb/

The calendar framework relied on the annual change in the position of the stars and specifically their first annual appearance after a period lost to the glare of the Sun. The first appearance presented themselves to the ancient observers at dawn or 'rising with the Sun' whereas contemporary imaging from a satellite where daily rotational influences are removed, demonstrate it is a property of the orbital motion of the Earth alone-

https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/

It is more like appreciating a work of art or music than explaining a framework because the reasoning is exquisite as representative of a culture that built the Great Pyramid with its astonishing dimensions. Without the references for the calendar system, it is impossible for contemporaries to appreciate the development of the 24 hour and Lat/Long systems which in turn are maintained through the GPS system.

This newsgroup has moved far enough along that any further explanation doesn't require revisiting the momentous error based on a daily rotating celestial sphere of stars, at least until it is required to highlight what RA/Dec modelling is blocking.

I have to question why there is such opposition to actual history and the details we acquired from antiquity which are still as valid today as they were back thousands of years ago-

".. on account of the procession of the rising of Sirius by one day in the course of 4 years,.. therefore it shall be, that the year of 360 days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day shall be from this day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the new year" Canopus Decree 238 BC

Now back to DST.

[[e-mail]]

Post by palsing

Of course, this requires the inviolate principle that clock noon and natural noon are anchored to one rotation of the Earth ...

Exactly right... with respect to the Sun, of course...

The 24 hour clock is anchored to natural noon and specifically the length of time from sunrise to noon is symmetrical with the length of time from noon to sunset -

"At the Rising and Setting of the Sun, when it is half above the Horizon, mark the time of the day, which the Watches then show; and though you have in the mean time sailed on, it is not considerable. Then reckon by the Watches, what time is elapsed between them, and add the half thereof to the time of the Rising, and you shall have the time by the Watches, when the Sun was at South; to which is to be added the Aequation of the present day by the Table. And if this together makes 12 hours, then was the ship at Noon under the same Meridian, where the Watches were set with the Sun. But if the sum be more than 12, then was she at Noon under a more Westerly Meridian: and if less, then under a more Easterly; and that by as many times 15 degrees, as that sum exceeds or comes short hours of 12: as the Calculation thereof has been already delivered." Huygens

https://adcs.home.xs4all.nl/Huygens/06/kort-E.html

You didn't have to make the effort Paul to work through all the technical details [Page 456 for example] even when Huygen's description is technically deficient in some ways because it does not mesh with the calender framework.

The positive outcome is a refiguring of timekeeping so it does not overreach into cyclical dynamics due to its inherent flexibility. The wider perspective is inclusion of the calendar framework and that is no small feat to achieve, even with satellite imaging to help to expose the scaffolding for timekeeping.

[[e-mail]]

Thanks to Mr Stardust-

It is not so much that a video contains an awful notion that the Earth doesn't turn once in 24 hours, but rather the people who promote the false value such as NASA, ESA, JPL and so on.

It's a bit like the conservative party presently in England, there is nobody with a sense of occasion to stabilise an unstable conceptual atmosphere, but this is many, many magnitudes more important than the bun fight among a political party doing great damage to their nation.

Walking away is not an option and neither is defending the misadventure with timekeeping which ignored the relationship between the natural sunrise/noon/sunset cycle with the human devised 24 hour cycle. The English have a wonderful timekeeping heritage apart from a rogue element which surfaces in the false information surrounding the most basic fact known to humanity - that the planet turns once every 24 hour day and a thousand times in a thousand 24 hour days.

In this polarising world, there is little room for people going about important matters with as little fuss as possible even when among the hostile or the inane. The unmoderated usenet is how I chose to operate within as a work in progress yet I would hope that would change for others who see a collapse in human reasoning within Western civilisation for nothing more than a silly indulgence that got out of hand.

[StarDust]

Post by ***@gmail.com
There are many news articles about Daylight Savings, however, there is no real explanation what it means other than clocks spring forward or fall back.
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london
That website provides an excellent way to appreciate how 24 hour noon is anchored to natural noon and the flexibility of timekeeping which includes DST.
Before DST is applied, the period of time from natural sunrise to natural noon and clock noon is symmetrical to the period to natural sunset. If there are 5 hours from natural sunrise to natural/clock noon, there are also 5 hours from natural/clock noon to natural sunset.
What DST does is create an asymmetry between sunrise and clock noon and clock noon and sunset. so the one hour from sunset to clock noon is shortened by an hour through DST and lengthened by an hour from clock noon to sunset giving 'longer evenings'.
Go down to the date and move the Sun back one hour and this feature will immediately become obvious, at least with a little effort.
Of course, this requires the inviolate principle that clock noon and natural noon are anchored to one rotation of the Earth and unfortunately that principle is not presently forthcoming in this newsgroup or anywhere else for that matter.

I have a hard time saving money, never mind the daylight?
🤑